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Il y a 2 heures, Jack a dit :

 

 

Ice has 17,8k ele resi (6,5k demo resi)

 

Mana Shield is lv 10, description says 40% absorbtion. Watching this video its around 25% of all incoming dmg. Would be a heavy nerf for people that play in aim/Dps

 

Maybe half the effect instead of completely blocking it?

 

Just saying that without mana shield sorcerer would tank as less as summoner and maybe invo?

 

 


And Ippo and Wyla stop posting your screens/vids/clips whatever nobody cares lol

Nice video. we can see that without mana shield the class tank pretty good but not more than a overlord or a dragoon ...

 

Reduce the % of mana shield can be a solution for have a little nerf on the tankyness of sorcerer and not kill the class who has got like i have already say in an other post ONLY his tankyness for her in strength.

 

ps : Destroyer i think deals more damage again with at the end snip and manif and i don't speak when they use the spell vulcan 300. The class even if its a sorcerer will die REALLY quickly even if the class has mana shield. 

 

And a senti deals more damage again, ninja a lots again near to these damages

Edited by Shey

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(Without mana shield indeed tank as other classes --- although Dragoon is slightly above the 9 other ... and if you look at "max HP" then its Dragoon/Overlord/Summoner but that's something else)

huhu ... Vulcan 300 is actually lower DPS (for 1 target) ... since its change (the animation time loose more X damage than the mere 4-5 hits)

And Senti do LESS damage than Destroyer xd (for 1 target ... and even multitarget I wouldn't simplify it since Destroyer could be using the other toggle shot --- point being both classes hit too hard, and probably other too ... or many classes hit to little I guess xd (it is just that Senti isn't "damage only"))

---------------------------------
Ps: Ninja? wtf ... again BSQ related, not 1v1 .... Ninja damage in BSQ is nowhere near the top (they have decent burst, that's it --- and like warriors; issue when keeping on ground is mandatory)

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Vous êtes fou ? En pve les classes ont des rôles précis oui mais en pvp chaque classe a le droit de se spécialiser non ? Si j’veux être un oracle axé dps c’est légitime c’pas comme si on avait le choix tfacon on a ni heal ni bouclier mana ni bloqué ni dero mdr

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6 hours ago, Jack said:

 

 

Ice has 17,8k ele resi (6,5k demo resi)

 

Mana Shield is lv 10, description says 40% absorbtion. Watching this video its around 25% of all incoming dmg. Would be a heavy nerf for people that play in aim/Dps

 

Maybe half the effect instead of completely blocking it?

 

Just saying that without mana shield sorcerer would tank as less as summoner and maybe invo?

 

 


And Ippo and Wyla stop posting your screens/vids/clips whatever nobody cares lol

Dumb point, no arca plays in aim/dps, the only person I can think of is ririth. You don't care about these 'aim/dps' arcas because they simply don't exist. Everyone can see through this fake empathy of yours lmao. Literally every arca is full tank 9:1, I'd respect you more if you just said the truth which is, you don't want your class nerfed, justifiably nerfed might I add.

 

E: also btw you're very stupid for mentioning me because archer was the first one to post the picture of me 5-0ing wyla, why didn't you include his name? Hopefully people realise that you'd stupid crystoz and to ignore most of your garbage points! Cheers.

Edited by IppoKO

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Il y a 2 heures, Shukky a dit :

Vous êtes fou ? En pve les classes ont des rôles précis oui mais en pvp chaque classe a le droit de se spécialiser non ? Si j’veux être un oracle axé dps c’est légitime c’pas comme si on avait le choix tfacon on a ni heal ni bouclier mana ni bloqué ni dero mdr

Ouais visiblement la trinité tu sais pas c est quoi mdr....

Bref flemme de débattre bon courage xD 

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Nan mais PvE ou PvP y a pas de role, arretez vos conneries... pas au sens trinité.
(et les "spé" du fait d avoir une classes plus adaptés a ci ou ca, ca ne change pas que toutes les classes sont censé etre capable de kill ... y a pas de "full support" qui tienne --- bien que rien n empeche un joueur de "laisser tomber" les degats; dans tous les cas Oracle peut largement DPS ... meme sans stuff DPS aimdéair xd)

Juste stop vos BS sur ca, si vous voulez du role, lancez un jeu qui est fait pour (et encore, meme les specialisés s en ecartent de plus en plus avec le temps --- look WoW now et y a 10 ans ou quoi ... )

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IppoKO ... dunno what you read in Jack's post ... but there is clearly no "full bias" there --- sure he might be requesting "half the nerf", and that's up for debate at the worst/best (depending on PoV)

But at least he used actual things from the game (even though slightly biased --- but not that absurd since most Sorc indeed go tank mode ... imo that just show a "too powerful" on the "vita mix" including the resist card on glove/boot)

Btw, you cry to go tank, but the build showed IS tank ... 38% crit ... 12xx dcc with 6:2 wing/bracer ... xd so stop your imagination (or 9:1 whatever) ... and look better/be objective a little xd

-------------------------------------
Ps: while I agree demonstration could be "fairer" ... and anyone can conlude on removing the skill (mana shield) completely ... it is still far better than those who don't even mention any references to the game (except I guess screen of 5-0 BS or something ixdé)

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On 11/13/2021 at 2:10 AM, mouafr said:


IppoKO ... dunno what you read in Jack's post ... but there is clearly no "full bias" there --- sure he might be requesting "half the nerf", and that's up for debate at the worst/best (depending on PoV)

But at least he used actual things from the game (even though slightly biased --- but not that absurd since most Sorc indeed go tank mode ... imo that just show a "too powerful" on the "vita mix" including the resist card on glove/boot)

Btw, you cry to go tank, but the build showed IS tank ... 38% crit ... 12xx dcc with 6:2 wing/bracer ... xd so stop your imagination (or 9:1 whatever) ... and look better/be objective a little xd

Do you not understand English? Reread what I wrote, you're confused.

 

E: You look really stupid here not gonna lie.

Edited by IppoKO

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On 11/13/2021 at 2:10 AM, mouafr said:


there is clearly no "full bias" there

 slightly biased 

So he's biased lol?

 

On 11/13/2021 at 2:10 AM, mouafr said:

Btw, you cry to go tank, but the build showed IS tank ... 38% crit ... 12xx dcc with 6:2 wing/bracer ... xd so stop your imagination (or 9:1 whatever) ... and look better/be objective a little xd
 

I never said this.

Edited by IppoKO

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Dude, I'm not about to play your "say every one is stupid game"....

You stated no Sorc go DPS/tank, and even mentioned a "9:1" (which I wonder what it is in your head) implying you want a full tank or something --- while the demo is already pretty much full tank (beside bonus point and stat card I suppose ... but which is not something we can switch on the go)
> And if my understanding isn't what you meant, instead of insulting me, have the decency of explaining what you meant ... (personally I don't see how any of that matter either way)

And yes, the test setup choices were biased a little, but not enough to be outrageous ... plus, at least he did show a test (what about you? a test? a number? an explanation? >> nope you just come and insult people ... very mature and helpful)

----------------------------
Anyway, the issue remain the same, lack of actual talk like Jack started there (even if not "perfect") with too many BS/drama around (like IppoKO, thx for the demo I guess? xd)

Note: IppoKO if you don't like Jack's test, then just comment on what is wrong there, and how that would "change the result" (because no matter the detail, mana shield do help a little to tank a bit more ... regardless of stating whether it is more like +10% or +25% depending of the case) --- or offer your own even

> As for mana shield, of course it is not "required" since Sorc is strong enough without it, but it is also not "godly" either ... take a sorc without a tank build and you will barely see mana shield (and whether no sorc do play that or not is irrelevant, or rather, just tend to show that the "vita mix" is at fault for being too OP --- relatively speaking)
(not to mention mana shield reduce non-elemental damage, and most people go full vita mix and ditch a LOT of critical rate/damage options ... hence reducing even more the effect)

Note: I would still blame "camping" way more than the class (whether or not a change/deletion is done to mana shield -- which remain was less important than managing to have actual "talk" ... especailly since talk is required for mana shield change just as any change)

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Point remain for active player to talk with bases from the game, and suggest actual "numbers".

(but I guess too many of them are just interested in DramaManager .... rather than any change or change talk --- go ahead talk "concretely" to prove me wrong, I dare you ... xd)

Aka, Jack's test "bias" can easily be alleviated (either changing the test, or simply put: adding a couple other tests and "synthesising" them) --- however if more people would actually offer similar things, we could go forward (contrary to those who are ready to write judgement about other or insult for days, but can never be constructive ever .... even with some slight degree of bias)

Plus, "tanking" wouldn't be such a problem if classes didn't have such huge gap in DPS to begin with
(and don't go assuming that would mean each class would have the same DPS, because it doesn't ... but between a x3 or more damage, and something more reasonable, there is quite a range)

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9 minutes ago, mouafr said:

Dude, I'm not about to play your "say every one is stupid game"....

You stated no Sorc go DPS/tank, and even mentioned a "9:1" (which I wonder what it is in your head) implying you want a full tank or something --- while the demo is already pretty much full tank (beside bonus point and stat card I suppose ... but which is not something we can switch on the go)
> And if my understanding isn't what you meant, instead of insulting me, have the decency of explaining what you meant ... (personally I don't see how any of that matter either way)

And yes, the test setup choices were biased a little, but not enough to be outrageous ... plus, at least he did show a test (what about you? a test? a number? an explanation? >> nope you just come and insult people ... very mature and helpful)

I didn't say 'no sorc go dps/tank'. I said they don't go dps/aim. 9:1 refers to elemental resist:elemental atk, this is simple math lol. Dynasto said the nerf will heavily impact aim/dps arca, this is a bullshit point because no one builds that way. I was not referring to the video, I was referring to his statement/excuse/reasoning and I was not implying anything, do you now understand?

 

E: I don't really care for Dynasto's video/test, I don't need a video to tell me mana shield removal will heavily impact arca's tankyness. My issue was with his excuse/attempt to dampen the nerf with a strawman argument lol.

Edited by IppoKO

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Even then, pretty sure his test is in "9:1 card" ... (never saw anyone use this notation though, usually only used for mix, and quite less useless since Sera was added (it was "relevant" only during Heavenly:Isoris mix which had more "options") ... so again, why you say that after quoting him? (tbh why you quote "everytime" is beyond me ... especically when you are the very next reply so reminding the context is quite superficial)

As for "heavy nerf to aim/dps", well it is true that those don't make a "tank issue" >> just once more showing the issue isn't Sorc, or even mana shield, but "full tank build".
> And again, yes he tried to pull the cover to himself, still better than what most do ... which is basically a plain old "no" with no base whatsoever ---- or worst, judging other while they themselves don't offer anything, like ... hmmm I wonder who.... (and especailly as his "pulling" is based on an example ... yes the example is a little bias, thus the conclusion is too ... but it is a thousand time better than those who state a conclusion with no base whatsoever)

Anyway again, stop trying to turn everything in a battle/war ... you think his test or conclusion is invalid, you can explain how and offer your own without being cancer ... (well at least you should be able to)

> and above that, it is mandatory: as long as people keep drama/war BS ... no change (not significant enough at least --- or take years to happen xd) will happen.
... so basically people with behaviour similar to yours are just trying (willingly or unconsciously) to impede change --- just because staff gave up (or never started) "punishing" this kind of looser things xd

What are you afraid of that prevent you from engaging in actual talk ... like commenting constructively this or that --- (instead of juvenile useless comment xd) ?

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Tbh you go to the conclusion of bias, while yes it has some, but better than those who just say «no change, Sorc always had mana shield, need to keep it» or something

And regardless, you can comment on it without being cancer about it, can't you? ...

imo it doesn't really "heavily impact" sorc anyway ... sure it might be 15% less tanky or something in that range, but so what? especially since it is 15% above the other ... not like the change would make sorc tank less than most classes
--- but again, the detail of "how impactful" or even whether delete or halve or other change on mana shield is quite secondary to actually managing actual "talk" (I bet you won't quote that to say "no" strangely enough, yet you keep dramaing again and again ...)

----------------------------------
Ps: what's even more hilarious is that dramaing keep the FULL mana shield around ... so whether you want half gone, or 100% gone, you should be refraining from this kind of behaviour (or at least "how" you bring it ---- well assuming you can control yourself xd)

Ps2: don't go taking it personally ... this issue of "control" when it comes to drama is global to most active players (including those of stay silent (and thus support it passively) cause a friend also does it or something)

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doesnt really matter whether no manashield impacts this or that build. at the end of the day sorcerer still tanks at least as much as most of the other classes - in most cases they tank more because its pretty much the only class which would go for sera hp/resi earrings, isoris bracelet or isoris wings.

 

if they go for dmg build, they would obviously tank less but therefor profit from more damage - like ririths sorcerer or commandos/ overlords/ twins who play with crit rate cards in bsq. a commitment to dmg/aim always means dying quicker.

 

however, resi cards should perhaps still be blocked from gloves/boots or maybe atk cards should receive a buff.

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Well, true, but any class can actually go full tank ... and again, that tend to point that the tank option are the problem (one of the problems)
(even if sorc "loose less" by doing so, because their skill don't proc elemental damage, and they expect to "freeze target to death" with other sorc ... or simply lock with the team --- which again can be true on any class)

Honestly the "tank > DPS" is global, no matter the class ... because the "vita mix" are far stronger (relatively speaking; e.g. you get more "additional tanking %" than "damage %")
> To me, that's just another topic that need balancing at some point
(but, one: it is less important than gameplay, global DPS balance (even a rough one) etc... and two: require people being able to talk on fact just like any change)

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I do agree that resist card (no matter how smaller they can be (than say full tank build or something)) should be fixed --- it is easy to do, they just need to decide it, and choose whether people should pay their card removal before the change ... or use support request or something after (well of course if staff manages to script a "remove card" it would be ideal, but I meant if that's "too hard to do")

> Still, that's a detail way less important that managing to have a proper "process" on player level: being able to "talk", rather than cancerous mess that basically means no change.
(so Sorc OP aspect and the rest stay as is)

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Ps: imo, even with perfect balance changes ... the BSQ won't change that much unless player change their mentality. (it all comes to that: whether the majority play to drama other; so win too important to pass any exploit possible, and fun pays the bill ---- or if somehow, someday, players remember that "fun" is the goal, and above that; fun lead to more people (or "not fun" lead to less if you prefer xd))

> Mentality need to be addressed on both gameplay itself and its impact to changes.

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balance can shift the classes a bit more again. instead of sentinel/ sorcerer we might see more thieves or invoker or summoner - however the player will probably remain the same, maybe just on different classes. if it will make BSQ more fun or not, is yet to see - even tho the people i talked to didnt really seem to enjoy the BSQ scene anymore because of too much abusive behaviour. so i doubt that those who play BSQ right now, play because they enjoy it - most likely they join out of boredom or driven by "hatred". there dont seem to be real teams anymore - guild A puts player in the side of guild B and vice versa, some other player lure in bsq 2 to prevent some player from getting 1500p and so on. however, thats a different topic. 

i personally hope that the new content sparks new life into this community and brings some old player back. bsq was at its finest when we had the alliance of qlf and co vs the rest of the server, with people in voice chat and bsq being full within 2seconds. bsq for the past half year was a joke compared to that. after all i understand when people get bored of the game or of each other and if they move on to something else instead.

 

 

Edited by Turpin

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Well, they do "enjoy" .... trash talking outside the PvP ... that's why they force themselves even when they actually don't have fun (at least consistently).

But the point is whoever say they want "improvement" would need to leave the drama at the door. (that's the hard part .... once that's done, talking about changing and stuff is pretty easy)

I genuinely think most people do want improvement (even those who would rather keep a few OP thing in their class), but they just "rage against their ennemy" even more ... that's a vicious circle that's hard to get out of --- nevertheless it is mandatory for any significant impact.

And it just so happens to be the same thing that is required for "game change" to be agreed upon (and then done).

We can argue all day everyday, but those thing are well known ... and "players", well more than half remains the same for 5-10 years ... yet BSQ wasn't always 100% cancer --- I do acknowledge it is a "nowadays" issue (no matter what game) ... and partially because some player are here out of boredom rather than really liking the game (while for instance 10 years ago, you would play a gear based game only if you actually liked it --- "for real") .. but still, people COULD change, just like they manage to become more and more and more cancer with time.

(just like at some point people started flooding friend request, then they stopped ... of course reducing/removing "camping" for instance would be far harder since people got way more time to have the bad habbit deeply rooted)

>> However even on that front (especially so?) ... people would need to manage to get together/talk to get to a consensus --- no "team" will ever stop being cancer as long as the others do ... so there's a need for everybody involved (the vast majority) to acknowledge the need to "change mentality" (and choose to do what's needed)
--- and until that happen, every subsequent things won't change/improve either (or barely so).

(and again, when people start getting angry, it is theirs friend and guild that need to "manage them"/"help them not falling back to full cancer" ... not their opponent, nor the staff --- and not because "I" say it; it is just pretty "normal" thing to do)

---------------------------------
New content, or even a balance patch ... is nothing more than an opportunity for the choice to change mentality, nothing else.

(and a good portion of it actually require the change to begin with --- even "new content" can be smoother/better if people were able to talk and provide objective/constructive feedback -- or just avoiding having the staff "fed up with the community" .... constantly xd)

Edited by mouafr

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🌟 Wa Salam Aleykoum 🌟

 

Hymne à la taverne de Dragotaka

 

Ô chers frère de toutes classes,

Vous qui baignez dans la crasse

Oubliez le futile et privilégiez l'utile

Abandonnez votre orgueil sous un treuil

Délaissez donc tous ces débats et revenez vers Allah

Si ce spam forum vous continuez de nourrir

Alors Zephyr vous fera souffrir

Car sous son buste bien dégoulinant

Se cachent des pectoraux de titans*

Et si ce n'est lui qui vient sévir...

Gare à l'ombre d'Isophyr.

 

 

 

*: mais vraiment bien cachés t'as capté

Edited by Meiyuu
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