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Proposition d’équilibrage PvP


Abys
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Thing is , we can't suggest/talk about DPS without bringing references to it ... aka numbers. (even if of course everybody knows "Senti do too much" ... need to know by how much, and similarly to provide a "decent suggestion" (anyone who actually look at number realise 30% would not be enough --- of course most balance process are a "little by little thing", except we never had DPS balance on this game, so it is wanted enough to start with something more significant)

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Sorc "tank" ... or "get more" ... not really that, just that since the class is the most adapted to camping ... it's more "acceptable", and beyond that, people did get used to it.
To be honest the most important factor is bias impression .... followed by resist card on glove/boot (which is the only thing that is factual and should not even exist) ...and even that could be done on any class ... just that Sorc have no use to attack card for most of its arsenal (but other classes could just as well ... even high card are barely over 100 dmg/hit/card ... not all that much relatively speaking --- perhaps the only situation where you could not = AA and Invoker X ... but those 2 are a major issue of their own because the reduce (M)ATK ... which is a relic of the past that should have been "fixed" (which is part of DPS balance we never had)

As for Blizzard, it (most likely) cannot be changed, not on the "insta-freeze" ... nor on the RNG part (some Sorc's blizzard are a beast ... other sorc are "meh") --- and definitely not its power relative to camping or not. --- that's both on coding challenges and on conept itself, changing blizzard would entail reworking the class altogether way too quickly.

Note: mana shiled is just the cherry on top (regardless of how one looks at the class --- it is not as big as some would like to think ... which could mean both at the same time, remove and leave it --- imo it can push the balance a bit one side or another, but it is not significant enough to make a real impact on its own ... and I believe the only thing "against" sorc is to somehow reduce camping...

--- as I said for years, at least once people won the BSQ ... if they actually wanted to "play", and not some drama oriented BS, e.g.:
So long people won't even stop camping once their team point is enough to win ... that's 100% proof that people involved have "playing" secondary to "something else"
>> And if those "people involved" happen to be the majority ... then it is normal that Sorc keep being so strong ... just as any other consequence of putting that "something else" above actual play (even before talking about "fair or not")

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You cannot list MS without guild10% buff ... either the buff is removed and it's the list mentioned, or it is +15 for the 10 classes (with some people frustrated not to have the buff possibly)

But there is "2 topic" there ... the MS itself: balance between classes and mostly relative to ~350 dash speed --- and how "hard/long" reaching lvl5 guild
(with the addition of "bad" quest or that lvl20 is more efficient than 70-95 ... way more because of the few quest like 8PvP or kill count ...and a few mobs quest that have too few of them I suppose)

Anyway, lvl5 being hard is a secondary issue ... a detail even. The main issue is to have increased something that was somewhat balanced.

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And Overlord MS (or any individual class) is a question AFTER that ... but I don't think we can "blame" Overlord for having +15 on the base ... people attack Stumble like it is crazy OP while it is not, it is just the impression of poeple rushing without a care in a world that just so happen to be caught by it .... just like they often complain about freeze)
> And honestly it is probably in big part as "outside DPS" Overlord is probably the most "liked" class (on any server) becacuse the class is versatile ... meaning it can face pretty much any situation (while it is not necessarily the best to face this or that ... it is somewhat "never garbage" against anything (well assuming you don't count DPS when you need to keep target on the ground)
--- it is pretty obvious that lots of other classes can catch a lot just as well if people ignore them too much from being blinded to "need to reach flag" --- and that the impression of Stumble would be the same even with 15 less MS (not to mention, 15 less is just the "normal speed without guild buff" to being with ...)


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As for "Twin/Shadow" using "past more speed than Archer" ... a long time speed was not reaching (or barely) 350 even for the fastest ... which is an entirely different situation

Beside Archer feel so strong and "unreachable" (in more 1v1-ish situation ... in BSQ/group PvP I mean, not an actual 1v1) because of their DPS which is way too high espetically on X, AA, Shootdown .... once that is "balanced" .... even having pixel under instead of a bit over won't matter that much any longer

Note: and btw Twin has 385 atm (or 400 with guild buff), so it is over Archer even xd

And please stop your constant BS of trying to make a 1:1 comparison OL:Shadow ... 
>> Overlord "higher MS" is relative to the lack on other aspect that people tend to forget (willingly? xd) ... like no superarmor, low DPS ---- especially as BSQ is mostly a ground game ... and I will remind people that Overlord lost its ATK buff 2 years ago despite no DPS balance was  even started on the class that needed the most (including Senti for instance)

(again I will remind people I do not play PvP any longer, so the lame excuse that I would be "defending my class to keep an advantage" is quite even more BS that usual)

Finally you forgot Savage also have +15 from base MS (and before some people rush to "but Savage can't catch as well --- well, how many player complain about a Savage running with flags? ... focusing on one situation is the very definition of "not being objective" ...)

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Anyway point is, whether or not stumble is OP, of a Overlord MS nerf is deserved, there are clearly more important matter, namely DPS balance --- and above that ... managing actual talk, and concrete reference to "number/the game"

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i didnt 1:1 compare ninja to ol at all, quote me on it. once you get to overlord you get totally biased. saying no superarmor, low dps. ignoring sword dance which is almost equal to barbarian and the strong chaincombo which even pushes ninja out of violentblow, dragoon out of shouldertackle. stumblebum with 360 no scope which counters even dragon dive and the death grab which has superarmor and 100% stun and allows overlord to loop with wyvern blade. add 0.3sec to savages provoke and 0.3sec to ninjas hypnotizer, put both skills at 100% and we will see how op stumblebumlike skills are.

 

then you refer to times where no 3rd job change existed and where ninja had shadow walk and 0sec cd sky penetration, need to get serious again. 

 

after OL has as much superarmor as archers so by your logic we need to put it at their ms?

 

i dont even ask to nerf OL ms, but for me, personally it makes no sense that ninja/twin are slower than archer suddenly with no explanation given - and that storm stepping became useless in terms of ms. why do you defend archer as top 2?

 

also why is thief buff disabled when we have a vda cap?

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Dude, I'm merely stating "why" OL has a MS buff to begin with, while your argument for Ninja is only "past" or something (and you forget that "past" thing when it suits you)

Beside you are the one putting those 2 classes on the line as it is your main, and you assume the main of the person you talk to (despite in this case making even less sense since I stopped PvP, and barely even use my OL in PvE either --- my observation are completely objective, and remain secondary every time to my post main point)
.... while "who play what" or "comparing 2 classes 1:1" (no matter which) are both irrelevant. (and look you stir up trouble yet again while in a general sense we are in somewhat of an agreement on the "main issue" being getting PvP player to actually "talk", and stopped PvP too --- probably for mroe or less similar reason too xd ...)

(Argue all you want, but if you look at say Dragoon and Overlord ... it make perfect sense that OL would have a slight MS buff (or something ... but I don't see what else than MS would be adequate) ... not because of 1 single thing, but the total overview of the classes --- likewise Shadow (or even Savage) ended up with one mostly because their kit vs camping is rather weak (however both thieves are really good to "not get caught" once we look of the other side; e.g. "holding flags" --- tbh Shadow is probably the best at that, ever superior to Dragoon or Twin)

As for DDL, would camping and fleeing be addressed, it would be banned (and while yes it IS an OP skill, don't put it on barbarian level ... their is no super armor to protect oneself againt freeze xd)

Plus you say I have a bias .. but look in the mirror, always feeling the need to link every single skill of OL (while most (all?) of the other class, you do not do that), regardless, "a specific class" (whichever) is not really the main obstacle of balance, so for once, try to keep your focus on main topic, rather than going out of your way to split hair on this or that xd ...

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As for "long in the past thing", well I agree they are irrelevant, I'm just saying you choose "the past that suits you" while other past show otherwise (and there were no 0 CD sky penetration ever (at least in Europe server) ... not " a shadow walk" whatever that refer to --- "OL" always add the dice buff (although lvl10 was "not plausible" until years later -- and impossible if you look back far enough) --- the 2 classes passives appeared at the same time, and even stepping was quite a while before being made, and is barely better (math wise) than dice.

And again, that's not to conclude anything on either class MS, just to counter you using argument of that kind for anything. (point is OL always add a slight MS buff, and was thus kind of "same as" Shadow outside morph) --- plus morph do exist, so focusing on "outside morph" is nothing but bad faith ... regardless it would be good if you could either drop that "topic", or if you really wish to keep going, you know how to PM me ... or make a topic if you really need this "public"

(Its absurd that on one hand, you do try to mediate thing for people to do what's need to go forward --- and at the same time, you keep splitting hair ... and you only ever do that with me, and mostly on Shadow/OL classes and nothing else.... yet you still state I would be the one with a bias issue or something .. maybe I do, but stop regardless (try to at least xd))

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And then you go again with your nonsense "logic" ... having no superarmor on OL is one of the trait that end up with a sligt MS buff .. among other.

Archer might not have superarmor (well they do have multishot but, I won't argue a offtopic BS) ... but they have other things, namely range, and shootdown --- plus the DPS itself.
> And the main reason of their MS is their lack of "combo lock" (yes even Senti, than can combo quite a while, but that basically mostly on net power ... they cannot help locking target as well as a warrior or thief would (even if in that field WW stun help quite a bit))

Regardless, rather than trying to drown OL, look at it objectively, it is fine (and yes DDL is a major concern .. which is the exception I suppose or something, e.g. that aside, the class is far from making a top 10 issue, especially in BSQ which dare I remind if the context)
> and well, you do asy so yourself .... which still beg the question why going to such lengh just because it's supposedly my class? wtf ... grow up a little, or simply mute me if you cant control yourself.

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370 385 slower than 375 390... wow what a huge difference (both (+Twin) are quite over dash speed, that the main thing I see looking at the 10 classes)

Back in 2012 or something, I did most my 1v1 as a Shadow against a Senti (at that time I had 0 MS item, while Senti main set was DO, so they had a lot of MS ... yet I never feft MS was a major disavantage or anything ... of course any class would be happy to have more MS, in general, relative to dash, or even better when it is "over every classes" ... but that doesn't mean it is deserved (including if it was the case here or there)
> Probably something barely over 300 in Ninja form (and thus 250 at most outside Ninja), while my opponent was 350-375 ... permanently

(and please don't make a fiction over I said, --- I only meant was is written nothing else --- namely that Shadow CAN play even at low MS .. which doesn't mean anything to nerf or not, but don't go saying in a loop that oh no having -5 MS on archer instead of +10 change everything or some other similar "drama")

You just keep stating over and over things implying that Shadow would be unplayble without huge MS, but that's simply not true, and a bad faith 'arguement' to keep/get the higher MS possible ... nothing else. (similarly you say most class are powerless in 1v1 vs Magician W/Z spam, which is also not true --- however both those situation are hard on "under experienced" player ... but balance doesn't take "not experienced yet" in account ... to my knowledge at least --- and I'm pretty sure your level is above that, hence the only reason to say it are "not quite good" to stay nice...)

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As for "thief disabled buff" .... you know why, so why you play the ignorant? ...
> cause it buff OTHER classes --- sure one could argue with AS cap it is not much of a big deal, but it would still alow to reach those gap easier and thus give a gearing advantage (like using a dcc pet instead of a vda one) ... not to mention, why would it matter? xd

In addition, "cap" is a temporary solution ...sure one that might stay forever, but the goal would be to have something else than a hard cap ... 

And if you complain about the 15% dcc ... just wow ... (if you really want to push the BS, well, why are thief the higher base tcc? ... beside history) --- regardless truth is, DPS balance would take that into account, if people were objective enough and able to discuss for the balance to happen. (so instead of adding that to the mess, how about avoid this kind of offtopic/superficial rant ...? just a thought...
(or we could also say, why most lvl7 buff are useless? --- I don't remember seeing you or anyone complaining that most classes get a crappy lvl7 buff while Thief/Archer got a good one)

Again instead of looking at what your subjectively "so called" loose ... look that these buff were a "bonus" for years and years while other had nothing ... and which made potential balance complication (on MS/AS which are quite important) ... anyway, that just another BS no one should even need to defend --- if you really want to argue for them to be active, go ahead, find actual positive use for them (and "need") ...

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>> it is just too easy to require of other to "prove" everything while you yourself never do (not "Turpin" specifically, but lots of "complainers")

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Ps: " I have so I can talk" is irrelevant ...one can have a class and that utter BS, just like someone without the class can say proper thing --- and similarly relative to "player PvP level" and so on ...

If one think a change is deserved he should be able to argue it, on fact (examples, game "values" etc... "global" analysis if I may put it way -- as opposed to pin poing what you look at and willingly ignoring part of the equation),

... not some random vague sentences that engage nothing at all.

> so long people doing just that ... like « here my suggestion » --- expecting a change, (and either ignoring "why", or even attacking/almost insulting people asking); basically "not allowing" other to even have a say in it... (which is dumb since, with such logic, someone will say the exact opposite hence why it ends up in "no change")

... well, that's the very problem we have, the one that lead to the "bad" behaviour (in game just like in "discussion") --- and which happen to "prevent" changes, any change.

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Le 03/11/2021 à 14:21, Turpin a dit :

 

thats pretty unfair towards abys. hes just quoting the reasons the player made up. those are not his own thoughts. better go and rethink your post

 

I understand your position Turps, thats pretty unfair for me too because I send detailled proposition to Abys in private message about the pvp balance, but you're right Turps I know that (that the goal of my comment to be unfair)

 

Le 03/11/2021 à 14:26, Lorlon a dit :

Tqt fait personne ira dessus 

 

Joue déjà pour commencer 

 

On est saucés qu'ils se ré intéressent au PvP, on sait tous que ce sera pas parfait mais c'est pas ce qu'on leur demande 

 

Puis au pire si y'a d'autres changements à faire on suggérera

 

Cocace venant d'un no player de critiquer Abys comme ça, ils veulent juste make PvPlayers contents. Abys est pro PvE on le sait 

 

J'suis un "no player" mais toi t'es un "no pvper" xd

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Honestly, its not hard to level up a guild to level 5. If your guild has 10 People doing it daily your guild will be lv 5 in 1-2 Months.

Also if elem has 20% more vda it wouldnt change a lot. As some people already said the problem is more likely the animations. Usually you cast one skill, get catched and die. Elem got low resistance and gets hitted hard by every class and also isnt very thanky. Those 20% only would help catching player (and not really a lot, I'd like to see back the 42% missing) and that would be a 1v1 change, not a "group pvp/bsq" balancing. Imo reduce Impact CD back to 4 seconds, i really dont get this change, it wasnt gamebreaking at all or anything. theres way worse skills (for example fire emblem) that have 4 seconds CD and have way more impact.

 

I agree to dragoon and senti changes. 

 

Arcanist Nerf is kinda interesting. It will end up being as "tanky" as a elem. having ~55 normal resi and 47k mdef (without sera ring). For people that play in full aim or full Dps it will be a pain to die super fast but for those people that went full tank (700k hp++ 18k ele resi) this will be a good change.


Oracle changes sounds good but imo Freeze should stay 100%.

 

Destroyer 15% ms nerf is to much and i personally dont see a reason for a ms nerf here.

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You realise you assume guild are 10+ people, when a lot of them are a few friends (like 3-5 people ---- or sometimes perhaps you do have 5-10 people, but most of them despise quests ... and won't do it --- sure you could blame them and say, well "their fault" ... but again system should adapt to their audience, not look at a minority and expect the majority to change overnight).
... plus you also assume people would do the 10 lvl 70+ quests when those quests include "obstacles" in some very tedious one (like getting kill count or 8PvPs)

(and it is more efficient (timewise) to do lvl20 one --- but that might end up even more tedious to get being motivated as no one enjoy making lots of character for meaningless content (even more so that lvl70+ area))

And even as indeed your math are correct, when you do in a more "general" context, we are looking at possibly 1-2 years ... which is long enough for basically most people to not even try.

(plus the xp amount are unknown ... so I have no doubt that most player "seeing" the next level new amount would get discouraged .... making those known or more "linear" would go a long way)

> Beside, I don't see the harm if say a guild of 3 players take 2 month already (and thus the one with 10+ might do it in 2 weeks --- imo 1-2 weeks for a 10+ guild is the "right number" with 30min-1h daily for each daily but that avoid "way unbalanced quests")
(again if they wanted "tryharders" content, that can be done ... put minor bonus on lvl6-7 and so on (can even be cosmetic tbh) ... but not something on MS for example, and not something as big as 25% dcc (which is probably less of an issue than the MS)

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Note: I wouldn't necessarily reduce the "xp amount for each level up" that much ... just increase the lvl70+ quest way more, which would also remove the "make hundreds of lvl20 char" thingy too --- and even if "reworking" high lvl quest is not possible, at least remove (or drop the number) on the "crappy quest" --- I would even be happy to suggest number on each and every quest (relative to how long it takes, like #spawn relative to #quest-kill and so on ... but that would clearly start by the 8pvps >1 (or delete) ... and the kill count trivialised as well (or delete, yes it is not "that long", but still annoying for no reason) .... other come to mind like "Lich" or something)

Ps: and best case would put the quest in order rather than random to avoid having to go back and forth between area --- and better than that, it would make it somewhat "possible/useful" to do them in group)

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Regardless, the MS issue for PvP would still be the same.

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People should stop confusing "stat diffences from gear" with "which class you play" --- (and yes, that include putting resist card on glove/boots --- which might be a good idea to remove, but people would need to agree on that; easy topic but still hard since people don't talk at all --- barely individuals putting their own request~)

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(prelude: understand that going in detail on "Summoner" has nothing to do with Summoner per se ... would it be another class, it would be the same)

As for "Summoner 1 skill, get caught, and die" ... so Summoner use skill like a bot? and have 0 cover whatsoever? >> that's your assumptions ....

> Beside one could say the same for the opponent:
Get caught by something (anybody in the opposing team) > Summoner rolling stone your face > "you dead" (by the Summoner & team)

My point is, making "scenario" is quite useless (or huge bias) --- reality is that "it depends"...

And Yes Summoners have a gameplay with more risk&reward thing --- at the other extreme you would have Shadow for instance, that have short burst so will hardly get caught, but hardly "carry his team" either (when it comes to lock/DPS ... and possibly woodrush aside)... but that's nothing new ... and known from the start more or less (even before knowing the skills, anybody expect "ninja like class" to be quite "dynamic", and "mage like one" to be more "think and big impact" playstyles .... (pretty much any game follow +/- those tropes).

well I suppose some people were lured by "turret mode" of course, but that's also quite known (even if most won't acknowledge that was the reason...)


... as for the comment on AS ... people keep forgetting that AS change happened with a 90>120 FPS at the same time ... getting "back to old AS" would basically be higher actual speed in all scenario that did not reach max --- or reach max more easily ... regardless Summoner can already catch a 60° angle in front of them, that way enough (and more than most classes, despite most classes not having such a good lock+DPS combo there after --- again Summoner is like Sorc in essence, and sorc have 0 catch ... without problem ever, and yes that include being "bad in 1v1 PvP for experienced players)

 ... even of some summoner would want a 90-150° one to be trivial catches ... xd (mostly as they compare to DDL or barbarian which are both OP ... and would probably be changed somewhat if balance wasn't to stuck from people behaviour) --- not to mention BSQ is a team-based activity, just go coordinate with someone of the team and impact + random action of the partner is one of the easiest catch of the game (and not hard to pull off at all xd)

> As for 1v1 .... well, first not that many even occur, 2nd Summoner (like Twin) are quite "refused to play against" (no matter what one may think about it) ... and above all that, making a reroll for 1v1 purpose is quite easy (since people will adjust gear ... well if they refuse to, they could just spam lock, so the 1v1 would be pointless anyway) --- not all classes can be "good 1v1er" ... (plus then what? good 1v1er will ask to be able to lock opposing team as well as a Summoner can? --- while most of the whiner also blame "class identity or something" ...)

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Note: my main issue isn't whether Summoner (or Invoker, or whatever) get their way, but the very fact of ANY class getting thing from flooding request --- basically basing all on "bad faith" and repetition ... which is the main issue that have been ending up with no balance, and "no" change for years...

--- and until most player actually acknowledge that, and do basic "requirement" on talk/suggestion ... the situation will remain the same as it currently is (including in game)

And that is also "nothing new"/been known for year... xd

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What's also quite silly to me, is people (with all good intent, don't get me wrong) stating "I agree with this or that" ... which often either has no number to begin with, or perhaps one number do exist in some suggestion, but we don't know "agreeing" with which...

...so agree with what exactly?

(I don't think anyone disagree that Senti do too much DPS for instance, but the point isn't agreeing to that ... but getting to a number change suggestion --- a SHARED one ...and "publicly so" if I may say it that way)

Again, we need actual "talk" ... with concrete base and suggestion so we know what is "agreed upon" (if the community manages it..)

> again, that's on active PvP player to do it (no matter with what medium; can start with vocal, discord, in game ... whatever, and once enough people are in a consensus make a forum post (with enough people "confirming" it is not only a one-man suggestion isolated but something more widespread)

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Note: and again, "me" stating it is no "order whatsoever ---- it is quite obvious (even if I don't put it to words) .... just if remaining PvP players actually mean their want for change ... (well more than "something else" --- anyone will understand what they want on that "something")

And don't tell me getting together is hard when "PvP players" have been doing that on trade chan to "taunt" one another on a +/- regular basis for years. (same "meeting", different purpose -- as simple as that xd)

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Dragon : -10% dégâts élémentaires sur dragon

Pourquoi? Car Dragon possède un dps très élevé alors qu’il est capable de stun, lock et possède beaucoup d’imperv.

 

→ + ou - d'accord avec le nerf, dragon possède un très bon kit pour 1v1 et pour l'arène entre les imperv, les stunts lock, ddl etc... Leur dps se fait sur la longue durée, peu probable donc de faire un full combo en arène, pour ce qui est du 1v1 là, un combo complet est souvent assez dévastateur.

 

Destructeur : -15% de vitesse de mouvement.

Pourquoi? Car Destructeur est la classe top 1 niveau choppe. Réduire la VDM revient à nerf légèrement sa capacité de choppe et donc la rendre + équilibrée.

 

→ Destructeur à part faux pas et ddl n'a pas un kit si rempli que ça je pense donc que sa vdm de base est donc justifié, comme cité plus haut par d'autres ce n'est pas la vdm de destru qui rend faux pas trop/très fort pour catch mais plutôt les erreurs de placement en arène, il est très facile de ne pas se prendre faux pas quand on se positionne bien...

Pour l'arène destru n'a pas un dps formidable sachant qu'elle doit envoyer les autres en l'air ce qui la grosse majorité du temps les libères donc bon sa haute capacité à catch est donc je le pense justifié.

Pour ce qui est du 1v1 en room destru sans son léger avantage de vdm s'expose à beaucoup avec un kit assez faible avec trop peu d'imper en comparaison à d'autre classes, si l'on souhaite jouer fair play (sans ddl et tornade bleu à gogo) je tien aussi à souligner que les combo xw des destru sont assez peu fiable à 270 de vda contrairement à celui des dragons et voleur au travers du quel on ne peut pas sortir/agir quand ils placent le combo xw.

 

Rajouter imperv à taillade, Pourquoi? les autres classes corps à corps càd dragon, ninja, voltigeur ont tous un sort verticale pour catch qui leur donne de l'imperv (plantage de lance, coup violent, grappin, alors pourquoi pas la taillade de destru ?? 

 

Oracle : +20% de dégât et Barbare a 90% de gel.

Pourquoi? Car depuis le dernier nerf il faut 4 combo pour tuer alors que les
autres classes c'est 2, augmenter les dégats et baisser légèrement la choppe du barbare serai un bon mix entre sa choppe et ses dps.

 

→ Je suis d'accord pour la hausse de dégats d'oracle qui en a grandement besoin en effet, mais pas pour le 90% de taux de toucher de barbare, oracle a besoin de 100% sans cela elle prend un risque non utile sur l'utilisation de son moyen de catch principale

 

Arcaniste : Rendre la compétence « Bouclier de Mana » inutilisable en pvp.

Pourquoi? Arcaniste est une classe trop polyvalente en arène. (Tank, dps, toucher)

Retirer cette compétence permettrait de baisser la tankiness de la classe.

 

→ Stuffé correctement arcaniste a un dps très bon, couplé à une tankiness très élevé, et même parfois trop... Je suis d'accord pour retiré le bouclier de mana. Sinon, retirer simplement la possibilité de poser des cartes résis elem sur gant/bottes aidera bien.

 

Sentinelle : -30% dégâts élémentaires.

Pourquoi? Car la classe est top 1 DPS et de loin.

 

→ Tout à fait d'accord, le dps sentinel est très largement supérieur à celui des autres classes en pvp.

 

Elementaliste +20% de vitesse d’attaque.

Pourquoi? Car la classe possède les animations d’attaque les plus longue.

 

→ Je ne pense pas qu'augmenter la vda des elementalistes les rendra plus viable nis en arène nis en 1v1, il faudrait plutot augmenter légèrement leur vdm qui leur fait grandement défaut car trop difficile de catch sans ça

 

→ Ninja : Réduire la plage d'attaque latérale de coup violent et passer le taux de stunt à 100% au vue de l'imper et de la haute capacité à stunt que le sort a, ça fait un peu beaucoup

 

→ Voltigeur + Ninja : Retirer terrier du mode pvp ou bien à fixer, quand on est sous terre on continue pas de pouvoir spam X que je sache pour en ressortir quelques mètres plus loin !

 

L'idée d'un rééquilibrage est bonne mais SVP ne vous focalisez pas uniquement sur les retours d'arène, il y a aussi les 1v1 en pvp room qui sont aussi un aspect du pvp à prendre en compte!

Edited by starscr0
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star, im not sure what you are talking about. wanting superarmor on overlord, saying they dont have any catches beside sword dance and stumble - actually everyone who says this, only played overlord because of these skills and never tried to learn to catch with anything else.

 

saying OL dmg relies on sending people in the air, but calling DK too strong, which also relies on sending people in the air (and has no death grab to pull them down again). also -10% ele dmg on weapon will most likely change nothing.

 

oracle at the other hand you want to buff by 20% again. is somehow confusing.

 

no idea what you want to do with ninja 100% stun rate. regarding the burrow, i dont like the skill either so i personally wouldnt have much against blocking it - but at the other hand it doesnt do real harm.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, starscr0 said:

Oracle  : + 20% damage and Barbarian has 90% freeze.

Why? Because since the last nerf it takes 4 combos to kill while the
other classes are 2, increasing the damage and slightly lowering the barbarian's mug will be a good mix between his mug and his dps.

 

→  I agree with the oracle damage increase which needs it badly indeed, but not for the barbarian's 90% hit rate, oracle needs 100% otherwise she takes an unnecessary risk on the use of his main wrestling medium

I stopped reading after this lol

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Il y a 4 heures, IppoKO a dit :

I stopped reading after this lol

Ippoko u don't play since 1 year. U have never be good except for argue for ur class : twin.

 

If u play u can see that oracle make 25% in 1 combo so 4 combos for kill someone. The only class or dragoon, overlord catch better and has got lots of more damage.

 

If u play at dragonica, u can see that in PVP GROUP or BSQ, there is ANY invoker actif. Sometimes Demdem at the beginning pve player x)

 

The goal but u have difficulties for understand, is that all class must kill beetween 2 combos for the DPS class like destroyer, sentinnel, ninja  and at the maximum of 3 combos, 3 combos and a little poke for the last like overlord already at 35% about, dragoon too much damage but not a big nerf because LONG combo and invoker but in the opposit, the class has received -40% elem attaq and +20 % = -20 % elem attaq in global. It's logic the class need a up of his elem attaq for deals about 35 % about not 60% .... don't be ridiculous.

 

 

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il y a 34 minutes, Shey a dit :

Ippoko u don't play since 1 year. U have never be good except for argue for ur class : twin.

 

If u play u can see that oracle make 25% in 1 combo so 4 combos for kill someone. The only class or dragoon, overlord catch better and has got lots of more damage.

 

If u play at dragonica, u can see that in PVP GROUP or BSQ, there is ANY invoker actif. Sometimes Demdem at the beginning pve player x)

 

The goal but u have difficulties for understand, is that all class must kill beetween 2 combos for the DPS class like destroyer, sentinnel, ninja  and at the maximum of 3 combos, 3 combos and a little poke for the last like overlord already at 35% about, dragoon too much damage but not a big nerf because LONG combo and invoker but in the opposit, the class has received -40% elem attaq and +20 % = -20 % elem attaq in global. It's logic the class need a up of his elem attaq for deals about 35 % about not 60% .... don't be ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

unknown.png

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if invoker really only deals 25% per combo im for it, but can i see a video or something? because remede was talking about 45% per catch or something like that. as said, you cant expect from the community to agree for or against % values without having any comparision

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Ippoko reste tres nul, c'est kdo : 1er pvp win en 1v2 or de base FURRY plus gros counter d'oracle x)))

 

Ippoko comme lux, 2 mecs qui fear les pvp s'ils sont pas sure de win, la preuve en image 🙂 😂

Dès qu'on tryhard les pvp grp, il perd ses couilles ... et parle chinois

Triste merguez 😂

 

image.thumb.png.38b558b5bd2661fd1261153a743ae3a4.png

 

image.png.e91428f59c10a365a426fcbde62bff6e.png

 

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"Par combo" >>> gros mdr, ni plus ni moins.

C est juste l excuse bidon la plus utilisée du monde (mais ca la rend pas pour autant vabale en quoi que ce soit)

"par combo = 1v1" ... 1v1 = equi stuff --- et choix des regles, donc au pire si ton adversaire veut avoir lavantage sur le nombre de combo pour kill, ben tu refuses le PvP et basta.

------------------------------
Now sur le "vrai" contexte (aka Arene) ... par combo? on s en branle total ... personne va s empecher de repeter des skills ou autre, et le "lock" sera infini jusqu a la cover ou la mort de la cible.

Qui plus est le lock est fait en team, pendant que les classes ayant des DPS de ouf vont generalement plutot focus DPS (surtout tant qu on aura jamais eu d equi degat)

Osef dire "Oracle pas de degat" c est juste la plus grosse connerie du monde ... un Oracle fait en 5s les degat d un Dragon en 20s ... juste aled quoi.

------------------------------
>> apres ca c est juste l exemple parfait de la mauvaise foi a souhait, et le refus de "debat" (avec des bases concretes, genre le DPS)

Et ca ne veut absolument pas "osef des combo" ou du 1v1 ... juste que c est un tout autre contexte, et dont les circonstances n ont rien à voir (1v1 a des regles, +/- respectée, alors qu arene ... c est deja dur de dire au joueur de pas flood demande amis alors bon xd)

Bref, juste Mr Shey qui fait son Mr Shey comme il fait depuis des années xd

>> Faut juste arreter de parler de par combo, et encore plus de % ... parceque % d un joueur a 300k pv, ou d un a 700k pv c est pas la meme hein...

Ou sinon, go cree topic "equi 1v1"... mais honnetement, ca va etre fini en 1 message: « en 1v1 les 2 joueurs se mettent d accord, point final »

(si y a moyen d ajuster des modif qui impact peu arene et aide en 1v1, cool ca sera fait, mais sinon osef ... et 1v1 reste principalement un compromis entre 2 adv ... parceque sans accord, ben ca fini comme on voit sur discord ou quoi; genre spam infini ... et donc "degat par combo" ou tout autre sujet s en retrouvent caduques)

------------------------------
Ps: starscr0 est effectivement à coté de la plaque, avec plusieurs signes tendant a montrer qu il joue meme pas sur le server, donc au pire ignore? (si vraiment il souhaite participer ben faudra que ton texte corresponde concretement au jeu --- au dela de faire un post "poli/bien posé").

> clairement Destru a pas besoin d un superarmor sur taillade (c est meme un mani a eviter, super armor partout c est justement ca qui amene les joueurs a face tank comme des gogol, et apres a chier d un skill comme faux pas ou quoi)

... coup violent 100%, mdr (deja que le 35% actuel est fumé ... heureusement que la classe n est pas ouf vs camping parceque sinon xd)

--- c est juste la meme que bcp "chu d accord avec ci ou ca" sur des trucs vagues et que tout le monde est d accord anyway  ... ca sert a rien, juste pour avoir une bonne apparence, et lacher des trucs aberrant a coté xd

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il y a une heure, Shey a dit :

Ippoko reste tres nul, c'est kdo : 1er pvp win en 1v2 or de base FURRY plus gros counter d'oracle x)))

 

Ippoko comme lux, 2 mecs qui fear les pvp s'ils sont pas sure de win, la preuve en image 🙂 😂

Dès qu'on tryhard les pvp grp, il perd ses couilles ... et parle chinois

Triste merguez 😂

 

image.thumb.png.38b558b5bd2661fd1261153a743ae3a4.png

 

image.png.e91428f59c10a365a426fcbde62bff6e.png

 

 

Playdragonica.eu21110720543500.jpg

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à l’instant, Shey a dit :

Mdr gg 1er 2v2 win vs un arca en full fuite manif x) jprend oracle on fait les même equipe  ? 😂 vs ton pote jen ai 20  des pvp grp win vs lui

 

Du coup tu confirmes qu'oracle n'a aucun problème et qu'il ne mérite pas d'être up, merci de confirmer les dires d'Abys.

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il y a 49 minutes, Archerng a dit :

 

Du coup tu confirmes qu'oracle n'a aucun problème et qu'il ne mérite pas d'être up, merci de confirmer les dires d'Abys.

 

Oracle a un souci en terme de DPS mais la classe reste largement supérieure à ARCA derniere en choppe. Ne confond pas tout, même si je sais bien qu'étant un débutant en pvp, tu peux trouver ça compliquer ... le dps, la choppe, les match up on sort de ta zone de confort qu'est le troll et l'idiotie. my bad 🙂 😘

 

 

Edited by Shey
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il y a 21 minutes, Shey a dit :

 

Oracle a un souci en terme de DPS mais la classe reste largement supérieure à ARCA derniere en choppe. Ne confond pas tout, même si je sais bien qu'étant un débutant en pvp, tu peux trouver ça compliquer ... le dps, la choppe, les match up on sort de ta zone de confort qu'est le troll et l'idiotie. my bad 🙂 😘

 

 

Je comprend pas vrmnt comment on peut dire probleme de dps et oracle dans la meme phrase quand 1: les oracles sont en stuff tank, et 2 en terme de DPS pur et dur ils sont pas a plaindre, si l ennemis ne bouge pas , le nombre de dégats par seconde qu'oracle infligera sera satisfaisant (par contre OUI les degats par combo sont peut etre pas assez mais on parle degats par combo seulement si tu veux equi du 1V1 )

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