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ūüáęūüá∑ Mise √† jour 0.919.136 / ūüá™ūüáļ Patch 0.919.136

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Il y a 4 heures, Chibibowa a dit :


ouais j’avais essayé vite fait mais j’atterissais trop loin au mieux ou je tape le bord du bois au pire xD. Avec ma furie y’a pas de soucis, même pas besoin de dash kappa. 
 

après le saut puis dash j’y avais pas pensé mais bien vu bien vu. 

 

Tu peux TripleAirDash si tu tapes le bord du bois

 

1634415425-img-20211016-183014.jpg

 

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@mouafr As always tu compares ce qui n'est pas comparable et tu as la science infuse sur tout. On verra du coup si ombre avec sa VDM overcheat va être dans le top classement PvE alru... Let me guesss....... Nooon? Haaaa j'ai même pas besoin de check donc tais toi une bonne fois pour toute sur ta VDM depuis 10 ans

 

Toujours à coté de tes pompes. Bien sur qu'Anubis était une bonne idée, tu me parles de hitbox et de jsp koi (j'ai décroché ton pavé qd tu disais de la merde dès la première ligne en fait). Mais tous les bugs ce sont juste les décisionnaires en haut qui sont incapables de faire tourner une extension de façon fluide, j'y peux rien, ils ont qu'a réinvestir le CS dans des dev en intérim qui leur file un coup de main.

 

Quand tu vois en PvP les placements, les dash en diagonales, les dash tout court, les esquives, les stun qui pardonnent pas etc etc, tu peux faire du plateforme game rien qu'avec Drago. Ajoutes-y du du skill... Et pouf t'innoves ! Pas du Anubis codé avec les pieds en mode no brain sans aucune opti on s'en blc on balance une extension complètement buguée mais on s'en tape ça fait du contenu.
C'est mieux  2400dcc full dcc tcc vdm qui va taper du mob encore et encore, dans 2 ans ce sera 3k dcc et rien n'aura changé, les buff guilde c'est quoi ? Oo VDM DCC quel hasard !

 

Et les events faut arrêter ça se touche sévère depuis un moment, je me répète, aucune prise de risques, aucun changement, la même direction, XW revert (en même temps idée de merde). FRRRR PRQ LES DEV NERFS XW MAIS PAS DPS SENTI ???? ARCA ??? DESTRU ???

 

Et là la carotte c'est "un timer" mdr laisse moi rire. Aller c bon prochain coup ajoutez moi un x3 ajout d'option puis un nouveau stuff encore lié, de nouvelles médailles encore et toujours, et un p'tit classement dj po et on est bon

Edited by Lorlon
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anubis could have been the greatest dungeon ever created with some modifications.

 

idk the times between the classes in pesentio / alruwman. i guess if its 3min vs 4min its still kinda balanced even tho its in% like a 30-50% difference.

 

in terms of gameplay its more unfair however. kinda in terms of the joke that alruwman is ax / y spam simulator. some classes like overlord / sorcerer dont even have to use more than 2/3 buttons to clear all the monster while other classes have to use all their skills while taking care of placement, hitboxes and cooldowns. so thats kinda bad game / dungeon design when every class plays like invoker.

 

at the one hand we say that alruwman is supposed to be a team dungeon but solo times are faster than party times. 

 

then we say classes got different roles. some push, some should deal dmg. but somehow the pusher do both now and also got movementspeed buffs in pve for no reason. half of the classes lost their identity. back then we had tank / support, heal, aoe and boss dps. now every class is a bit of everything and most classes just spam x - even at boss (overlord, invo, summy, sorc, twin ?, commando, senti).

 

in pvp there are still talks about nerfing classes who are already kinda dead and no one speaks about nerfing the classes who are highly represented.

 

dont get me wrong the game is still doing kinda fine apparently (for some reason), even tho it personally doesnt give me that thrill and old days drago feeling anymore. it could easily do alot better with the changes i have in mind imo

 

 

Edited by Turpin

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Totally agree with you.

 

There is absolutly 0 class identity.

 

Sorcerer should heal and should be a support class. But guess what ? It is the best farming class. I just wonder how useless heal spells are. But devs decided "no need to have heal class for dj". Lmao that's just basics in mmo : tank, heal, dps ????
Just to give some clues : oracle : heal, arca : control/aoe, paladin : tank, volti : control/aoe destru : aoe/dps shadow : mono big dps commando : dps senti : control/aoe

 

They just put mobs in maps that we have to kill and that's all. Why don't some mobs really dangerous during the dj ? Why don't mobs that heal others ? Why don't mobs players should stun and/or control them during dj ? Why don't mob than can stun you more tanky than others ?
 

Instead of that they just put fcking frustrating useless traps we don't even see and totally useless. I don't even speek about shadow class how it is the most useless class in the serv.

 

And I don't even speak about PvP. Overlord/arca powa. Even senti player seem annoyed. Strangely, I don't see any new shadow player. But overlord and arca... damn

 

 

Edited by Lorlon

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35 minutes ago, Lorlon said:

Totally agree with you.

 

There is absolutly 0 class identity.

 

Sorcerer should heal and should be a support class. But guess what ? It is the best farming class. I just wonder how useless heal spells are. But devs decided "no need to have heal class for dj". Lmao that's just basics in mmo : tank, heal, dps ????
Just to give some clues : oracle : heal, arca : control/aoe, paladin : tank, volti : control/aoe destru : aoe/dps shadow : mono big dps commando : dps senti : control/aoe

 

They just put mobs in maps that we have to kill and that's all. Why don't some mobs really dangerous during the dj ? Why don't mobs that heal others ? Why don't mobs players should stun and/or control them during dj ? Why don't mob than can stun you more tanky than others ?
 

Instead of that they just put fcking frustrating useless traps we don't even see and totally useless. I don't even speek about shadow class how it is the most useless class in the serv.

 

And I don't even speak about PvP. Overlord/arca powa. Even senti player seem annoyed. Strangely, I don't see any new shadow player. But overlord and arca... damn

 

 

 

dont get me wrong, i dont want to say classes should be put in certain roles. in fact its good that  a tank can kill aswell etc. i just think theres a problem when few classes stick out and become everything at once. but this is clearly a problem of this servers design. aka no crit rate cap, every class can reach 100% final crit and so on.

 

basically i said years ago that we will have a problem if we pump out more items (like randy scrolls) and if invoker and other classes reach 100% crit. you will eventually hit a point where certain moves and attacks become broken, like x/w spam in pve with alot of classes which became superior to any skills. actually funny how soon i called it out but no one listened to me. this also includes isoris mix, x2 soulcraft and str/ int cards. its nice for "variation" but in fact it makes balancing alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot more difficult.

 

like how do you want to balance the new content? you want to balance it around the hardcore pve'er with str cards, x2, solar, cdmg cards, randy scrolls? or for the casual player with normal bsq like gear? for the hardcore pve'er new content will be totally easy, they will finish even sooner and get bored again. for the casual player pretty difficult and they will complain that it is too hard - like with alruwman.

 

and thats why anubis was great, because it wasnt all about killing monster - means balancing and classes didnt matter that much. it required more skill than gear and if the dungeon would have been a little bit more forgiving, it would have been perfect

Edited by Turpin

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2 hours ago, Turpin said:

some classes like overlord / sorcerer dont even have to use more than 2/3 buttons to clear all the monster while other classes have to use all their skills while taking care of placement, hitboxes and cooldowns. so thats kinda bad game / dungeon design when every class plays like invoker.


That’s why I play Furie. There is actually something to press on. I do use XW for ST but for AOE I only use spells. 
 

tho furie has a lot of good spells if you time them right and if you upgrade them (people telling me that upping mundane skills to level 10 is useless. But when groups stack 10+ mobs. You’re very happy to have a fufu that can hit 12-14 mobs instead of 6-8 xD. It makes a MASSIVE difference). 
 

PS: I find it very difficult to secure a 4 min run solo as furie tho. I’m more in the 5:20 timings. I don’t have randy scrolls tho but that won’t give me a full minute. 
 

sadly, it’s not because of low dps, but because of skill animations that I have to use (harmony impact as well, takes time to build and must use spells, not x) which adds up to the timer. 
 

in solo I do it in about 5:20 and in solo duo I do it in 6:40 give or take. Going solo is bad for fufu. Duo is best. Quadro even better if you play with another player alongside you. 
 

(Not asking for buffs, but I think some ‚Äúnon-technical‚Ä̬†classes are inherently advantaged because of dunjeon design, sad...).¬†
 

Dunjeons are also made for 4 players in mind so there’s that as well. Fury gets a lot more value when playing with 3 other people. Especially if those people know their shit and pack mobs from left and right to center so that we can do big bursts. When you play an X class, it’s much more simple. 
 

NTClasses = Easy rotations or/and heavy focus on X attacks. 
 

We also need more furies. And people need to stop playing in fused mode as well. 
 

But I digress xD

 

(We could solve the problem by buffing the animation speeds of certain spells by like 15%. Making the execution faster will help fury (and maybe other classes) be aligned with other specs. 
 

In an ideal world, every DPS should have the same global damage but sadly, that’s very hard to do. 
 

To me, the next extension can be hard but then alruwman has to be nerfed TO THE GROUND so that people can farm the stuff they actually need instead of coming with bad gear and slacking all run. 
 

Even isoris still has too much HP on bosses and absolutely nothing on mobs, bad approach. Very bad approach. On the other side, F3 alru is too tanky as well. 
 

I always said it and will still say it: Nerf boss HP by 30% minimum and nerf mobs hp on all modes by 30% as well.

 

Or you up mobs and nerf boss. Take your pick. 
 

PS: Fury’s ult needs a 10% buff and it’s perfect :3

 

‚Äď

Turpin, on bosses, good furies uses XW in non fused mode. XW is sent by the main twin and there is a rotation of 4 twin green skills alongside the XW. It’s the best ST dmg we have. Macro is obviously required for consistent damage. 

Edited by Chibibowa

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Lorlon tu pars dans des delires sans fin, et totalement hos sujet, et comme d hab, avec des affirmations a la pelle, mais 0 propositon concrete...

Ameliorer gameplay? ah? comment?

Pas "que du bashing"? c-a-d? ... (tu nous donnes un exemple d un "farm" qui ne serait pas du bashing? ... tu peux meme prendre un donjon d un autre jeu ou quoi si ca te chante --- laisse moi deviner, y aura juste un gros silence, ou des accusations que chu mechant che pas quoi ixdé)

... sachant que "plateforme" comme tu dis... ben la commu n en veut tellement pas, que l echelle vasio a ete supprimer, les poteau Isoris (et pire Anubis lolilol) ont été la chose la plus mal recu de tout temps ...comprend bien que perso j preferais la version d avant, j allais plus vite, et y avait une diff entre joueur "experimenté" ou noob (cela dit, un rework etait sans doute mérité, juste que j aurais vu la chose autrement, notamment avec un systeme permettant au 1er joueur qui passe la section "plateforme" d activer un rebondisseur ou autre pour ceux qui sont "en retard")

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Et meme dans ta fiction sur Anubis, sous entendu en fixant les problemes majeurs (mur invis/hitbox ne correspondant pas au visuel ... et surtout "kick donjon"/drop en 1 run) ... ca changerait rien que ca ne serait pas amusant ...

>> Une fois que les joueurs sauraient "par o√Ļ passer" ... ca ne serait ni plus ni moins que courir, comme le chemin Lavalon par exemple ... avec le peu √†¬†tape etant 5% des runs √†¬†tout cass√©, et Anubis lui meme en mode elitiste¬†√†¬†souhait (notamment sur le besoin de heal --- ou d etre pret a flood gateau/payer sa rez ... le pire etant que Anubis lui meme peut a la fois faire 0 degat comme OS meme les plus stuff personnage possible ... et il serait difficile de meme commenter¬†les "patterns" vu le peu de "tentative" que les joueurs ont pu avoir et la quantit√© absurde de degat qui rend delicat "d apprendre" ---¬†mais kk chose me dit qu ils n'ont rien de "bon")

Note: et meme si les pattern sont bel et bien "esquivable", ca ne ferait que rendre la chose bidon à souhait ---- à la base les boss n ont jamais été  marrant, car c est 1 seule cible, et immune status, donc limitant a mort l arsenal de n importe quelle classe. (et ca dans à peu pret tout les jeux)
(au mieux c est fun le temps "d apprendre" .. par le coté progression entre "galere" et "maitriser", mais ca s arrete là --- meme si tu prend du dark soul ou quoi, au niveau de joueur faisant du speedrun par exemple, ben c est pas specialement "fun" ... et bizarrement seul le "classement" permet la duree de vie)

Bash du mob n est p ete pas super passionant non plus, mais quand les mobs ont suffisament de pv pour que la facon dont joue le groupe fasse la diff (aka avoir une bonne coop/synergie) ca rend la chose interessante.

>> apres chaque joueur ses gout, celui qui n'aime pas "farm", ca le regarde, mais à ce moment là il ne choisi pas un jeu de farm ... et vice-versa.

---------------------------------
Ensuite "ombre pas dans le classement"?

Montre moi un ombre stuff deja? et qui sait jouer? --- d autant qu en "low pv" Ombre est parmis les meilleurs classes pour Alru ... (meme si on ne peut pas rentabiliser a mort rondin, la "faiblesse" de manque de degat regulier disparait.

Et meme sans "savoir/accepter" la "place" d Ombre dans les circonstances du moment (ou tout autre d ailleurs) --- je vois pas trop le rapport avec ce qui est mentionné ...d autant que tout ton "trigger" ici present est basé sur quoi? le 3eme saut qui a remplacé l echelle vasio? ... wtf, genre serieusement WTF quoi ... ravagé powa

(tout ca en plus en criant sur Destru qui est totalement absent du classement ---- ca sent juste le mec 100% biaisé qui l ouvre sans savoir de quoi il parle)
(et oui y a probablement encore moins de Destru stuff/sachant jouer ... mais faut etre tres ignare pour pas savoir pourquoi, parcequ a la base Destru est une classe plutot "aimer" --- juste tellement trash de chez trash au boss ...)

Question vdm, ombre a 105 d avance, ce qui est juste totalement absurde que ca plaise a monsieur ou non. p ete qu on devrait test de mettre 105 de retard pendant 2 mois voir comment tu penses la choses apres --- le fait est qu avoir vers 30 d avance serait largement suffisant, et si la classe s avérait "en retard" (spoiler alerte, ce qui n est pas le cas) ... ben c est d autre point qui devrait etre "augmentés".
... et meme l√† au pire look la chose a l inverse, pkoi les autres classes devraient avoir tant de retard ,huh ? ... (et encore une fois evite de vouloir user les temps solo en pv chips comme reference de quoi que ce soit --- car d une part c est representatif de quedal, d autre part vdm n est qu un aspect, si le total est pas o√Ļ il faut ca veut simplement dire qui a un retard ailleurs ...... MAIS y a toujours 0 raison d avoir autant d ecart sur un aspect telle que la vdm (notamment tant qui aura bcp de run a faire, et des sections "plateforme")

Note: honnetement Ombre/Furie/Commando ont tellement d avance qui a plein d endroit o√Ļ t as meme pas besoin de mettre le pied sur les plateformes --- enfin en supposant savoir "allong√©" son saut avec des "X" ... et surtout avec le buff Abyssal/low pv des mobs qui permet probablement de¬† jouer largement au dessus de 500 vdm (voir 550)
(et si vraiment t as peur de "perdre de la vdm", y a aucun souci, suffit de up les autres (sans toucher au top) ... c est plus une question d équité que "blamer ci ou ca")

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Dans tous les cas, c est un packet d effort pour bash de l hors sujet (et eventuellement "moi" xd) ... et toujours 0 suggestion concrete ...

Et c est pas un hasard si y a 0 suggestion, c est juste que tout ton speech n est que ca, "du speech" pour des "demandes" de choses totalement irealiste.

Cela dit, je suis tout a fait d accord que "nouveau stuff"/power creep dcc ou quoi ... ca n a aucun interet, et c est justement pour ca qu il faut travailer sur les possibilités durables (qui tourne autour du PvP, que ca soit "fight" ou autre rivalité inter-joueur)

Note: mais bon pour une grosse partie, c est la mentalité des joueurs qui fait defaut, et a ma connaissance tu fais partie des gens en arene pret a abuser le systeme pour win ... donc bon (che pas parle a "ta team", et mettez vous d accord avec celle d en face pour stop le "full cancer", p ete que plus de joueur joueront)
>> cette phrase est virtuellement aussi utopique que tes delires Anubis, mais le fait est qu a ce niveau là, c est pas un souci de contenu, ou de "developpement" de la part du staff)

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Bref, dans tous les cas, Anubis est "mentionné" ici et là par une extreme minorité, si t es pas foutu de comprendre que ca veut dire que la majorité n est pas interessé, ben t as un gros souci de comprendre comment une "societe/communauté" marche (comprend bien que je ne partage pas forcement l avis de la majorité en tout point, mais bon que ca plaise ou non, on est obligé de l accepter ---- surtout si on est pas foutu de proposer une "solution potentielle"

Donc si t as un commentaire li√© au sujet c est mieux, et que ca soit le cas o√Ļ un truc +/- HS, ben go proposer un truc concret, ou exprimer pour de bon ce que tu essais de "crier bien fort"... (defini "bashing" par exemple ... et "comment" contourner cela ... tu dis "trop facile", ben explique comment faire un truc "challenge" mais qui reste agr√©able pour la majorit√© (encore une fois, moi aussi j aimerais du "dur" ... mais bon c est pas si facile a mettre en place au final --- c est d ailleur bien pour ca que tout les raleurs dans ton genre donne jamais aucune "idee")

~kiss xd

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Ps: "identité de classe"? huhu, si tu veux des classes ayant des roles different, go jouer WoW ou autre ... aka jeu basé "holy trinity" (et meme là, si tu compare un tank et un autre tank (ou la meme dans les 2 autres categorie) ... c est globalement tout pareil) --- une diversité total, et qui dure par delà le temps, ca n existe pas...  (quelle que soit l activité, une fois qu on "maitrise" ... c est redondant, juste que c est un souci que lorsque ca ne correspond a ses gouts ... sinon c est juste ca un "hobby" xd)

Et perso j aimerais que tout ce qui est X et W tape 0 damage... et que les skills fasses potenteillement plus, mais le fait est que c est pas si simple, et notamment avec les impact PvP eventuel (genre Senti est le pire casse tete à ce niveau ... que ca nous plaise ou pas, c est un fait)
>> Cela dit, une fois de plus je vois pas trop le rapport avec ce topic, cette maj, c-a-d "le classement" (juste raler pour raler quoi, huhu?)

Note: et ca vient principalement du manque de pv des mobs une fois overstuff (encore pire en buff abyssal) ... qui est l un des points les plus important abordé ici comme dans un tas d autre topic
(et oui c est compliqué car il faut aussi avoir à l oeil la situation du "nouveau joueur" --- cela dit pour un "classement", le cas nouveau joueur a 0 importance)

(et clairement si ca tenait qu a moi ca serait fait (ou en tout cas, ca avancerait dans ce sens) ... mais bon le staff juge qu ils ont d autre priorité, qu on soit du meme avis qu eux ou pas)

Edited by mouafr

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ninja has only op movementspeed in pve because of the stupid pve powerbuff. wondering who the genius was to give the fastest class a movementspeed buff on top.

 

however pve powerbuffs shouldnt exist anyways. actually i think it would make the game way more balanced if you remove all the ms/as/crit rate and crit dmg buffs and start thinking about serious balance instead of applying random buffs to each class.

 

saying ninja should try to play with same ms as other classes isnt very smart tho. you want to be as fast as ninja, twin or archer, but do you want to give them the same phy atk as overlord as compensation or op x hitbox and single dps + heal of invoker? i dont understand this obsession, especially since movementspeed is pretty irrelevant in pve and only becomes useful on the tracks where no monster are (as long as you do have to stop to kill and dont oneshot them).

 

even at anubis jump section movementspeed wasnt too useful. many player took ms off to have more reaction time and doing precise jumps. its useful at skiespath however, tho skiespath should be replaced by a higher level dungeon long ago.

 

anyways, long story short, feel free to remove the pve powerbuffs since they do more harm than good ūüôā

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Say the guy who litteraly asked for it ... genius -.- xd

And 105 MS is not ALL from PvE buff ... Archer got +20 buff (since the lvl7 buff is for the whole team --- or +35 if you don't count that) above the base (aka +50 while most classes are at +30) --- and that's enough to have an edge to be honest.

Anyway, as usual as soon as MS is mentionned you see a couple of Shadow trying to break out of proportion ... it is not even the topic whatsoever, Chibibowa simply mentionned the 3rd jump being kind of annoying for classes that don't have 400 MS, and no one can argue that.
>> Especially since the change was to address a "problem" for a portion of the player base (but at least the ladder wasn't much related to how much the class MS is)

Regardlesss I don't see how moving the last portion a few centimiter down would be a problem (sure that mean changing the map and stuff so it might takes some times, but on the design level there is nothing to argue about)

-----------------------------
As for you usual "put all in the same sack" and claim Ninja could somehow not play if it had like 50 less MS ... its utter BS
(and BTW, there are most classes at +30 .... 2 archer + Savage around +50 ... and THEN Twin/Shadow at +90/105 ... e.g. clearly 3 "boxes")

And going "give same attack as A" is dumb as fuck since the skill themselves don't work the same --- beside I already stated, balance in "overall power" and in MS itself are 2 differents topic.
Now stop talking again and again about Shadow MS and try to make it appear "normal" when A: it is not the topic, B it is completely untrue. (and since you love to talk about DS, well there it  is 400 MS for the 10 classes ... e.g. Ninja have +0 over the other one ... (but again the main point to take here is, no one talked about this, it is just that very high MS make the 3rd jump no problem whatsoever, while lower MS (+unexperienced people) have)
>> e.g. you don't have to think that every single sentence is aimed at "nerf Turpin class" ... that's crazy megalo powa ... seriously.

(and finally "in anubis jump section" .. A--- wtf? ... B --- you say yourself, you can remove it, so it is still an advantage when you want it ... and again worst thing worst, just make all classes +50 MS, archer/savage +70 ... and twin/shadow +90 (not ideal imo, since more and more MS is just dumb (not to mention the recent +10% from guild) ... anyway, keep your "defend my class BS" for when that topic is ACTUALLY talked, which no matter how you think it is not the case here....)

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you can put ninja at the same ms in pve as other classes if you want to or put other classes i dont really care. at the end of the day it just wont be good for the game. i personally never had any problems in pve because of slower ms with mage or warrior, since dashing exists. have fun playing a game where all classes are the same and where supposed healer/ supports out dps and outspeed the old days ms and dps classes and where x spam is the key to anything with the excuse like uh yeh we cant nerf chaincombo and x attack in pve because it would impact pvp too much. in fact x spam at the non projectile classes should deal way less damage. yet it is the main killing tool for alot of classes because it has 0 cooldown, every class has like 400 atk speed in pve and x attack oftenly targets more monster than most of the skills.

 

still utterly bullshit when your main complain about pve design is that some classes have more movementspeed than others in pve "because of vasio plattforms". and the solution isnt to change the placement of the platforms but to increase the movementspeed on other classes again i guess? (plus ignoring that dash exists) - while we see no issue with overlord and other classes mowing down all the monster because of ridiculous chaincombo and atk speed. im pretty certain that if it wasnt for your class, you would be one of the first people to complain about overlord just spamming x in alruwman and basically using even less skills than summoner.

 

in fact i dont remember ninjas or twins or archers superior ms being a problem in early days and early levels of  dragonica pve. and im talking about the normal ms without nerfs. actually even at those days classes like sorcerer, savage, invoker or commando were preferred for f1 kryos farming because of their skillset and not because of their movementspeed - at least at the old official, my old pserver and at dragonsaga. and thats a fact, but i guess it's useless to try to argue with you and to offer you a different point of view. but movesets are no big interest anyways if 50% of the classes play full xw because its their strongest tool. lmao

Edited by Turpin

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You keep inventing thing ... to make it appear you have some kind of argument, and you can't even properly get into ONE topic ... you just basically rant, again and again, and again ... that's all you can do.

Dragonica isn't a "role" game ... and no matter how similar MS would be, that doesn't mean the classes are the same at all.
(and while some moment/portion of the game did have "heal" to be useful, it was alaways something poorly received, because it is completely unfair ... and frankly absolutely dumb as Invoker can heal full HP every 1-2 second ... xd)

As for "not nerfing X/W for PvP", where the hell was that said? ... if you take Senti as an example, wolf/bird cannot be change for PvP reasons ... and in time meaning you cannot simply remove X damage ---- and if you are so sure it is easy .... why did you never offer even ONE concrete suggestion ... like if you were in charge, what would you do to "change Senti PvE" (without completely altering the class since it is a Live server --- and of course without ruining its PvP aspect)

Then you claim my main complain is MS with plateforme? what did you smoke to get that ... or better, quote where I would be saying that? ....
(as usual, you claim things that aren't there (and are basically just you invention) ... and then you "judge" people of those fiction ... it is plain pathetic)

I will remind you this topic is not about balance whatsoever ... and if not the 2 Ninja going crazy about someone mentionning the class have crazy high MS (without any intention to "balance it" --- just a mere statement related to a jump that is kind of awkward) .... then noone would even "talk" about it.

Finally, again stating "before it wasn't an issue" ... well of course so long we talk about MS below the dash, it doesn't matter much (especially in PvE) ... but once it is above the dash, and how far above, that is quite not the same story (to be honest, you clinging that much on that prove the point on its own --- if is was as "unimportant" as you make it to be, you wouldn't be spending wall of text again and again about it --- mostly offtopic to top if all off)

And again, DS is 400 ms on all 10 classes, not 370 for 5 ... 390-400 for 3 ... and 430-450 for the last two.
As for "XW" best tool, definitely not true --- there are the weakest thing most classes have actually ---- it just so happen that when monster HP is too weak (relative to overall character damage) ... X/W can be enough, and since there is 0 CD on them, then of course it can be "too present"
>> still, I don't see how this silly rant has anything to do here ...

-------------------------------
Regardless ... again, what the relation with the topic here? (aka the update, aka the timed ranking)

If you have a comment on the ranking system (or suggestion) go ahead ... else, just create a topic or keep it for yourself perhaps? (not an "order", just what is supposed to be done ... you can respect it ... or not as usual I suppose)

Ps: of course the couple of map changes are also the topic at hand ... but the rest, be it "class power", or "class MS" etc... aren't, just get that in your biased head if you can xd
~cheers

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50 minutes ago, Turpin said:

every class has like 400 atk speed in pve and x attack oftenly targets more monster than most of the skills.

 

Not at all, it probably lies between 250 and 300 for the average joe. And X has a hardcap of 5 players, using X (+W) as fury on big groups is a waste of time, but not for senti and other classes alike. So your comment is partly true, but not for every class ūüėõ

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De base "la vda" n est qu un intermediare pour la vitesse, plusieurs classes ont leur palier max vers 225-235 .... 

Ensuite, personne a 400 vda, meme Destru qui a les palier les plus haut fini a 372 ... (meme s'il est possible d avoir un mini gain 380-390 sur p ete un X dans les series genre qui changerait meme pas 1-2% xd

Finalement question "nombre de cible", ben oui, et on en revient justement a l aspect "mob trop freekill" (une fois overstuff --- et encore pire en buff Abyssal)

Note: cela dit, Senti spam X ... c est pareil low cible (meme pire ... c est 6 cible pour les 4 premier X ... et le 5eme coup (qui est le plus important) a deja son max hit dés 2-3 cible, plus de cible ne fait que dispercer les coups) ... de plus, gros pack c est Tir d elite qui prend le relais (et pack moyen, type 10, l ideal est la pluie de glace)
>> bref, le fait est que l impression de puissance est lié au manque de pv de mob (qui se retranscrit sur la quantité moyenne de cibles)

Go sur un perso Celeste en mode duo/groupe, on voit direct que bien que la poussée soit super importante, le DPS des X/W est tres secondaire...
(cas appart des boss bien entendu, ixdé)
>> faudrait simplement que  le "classement" soit sur un mode special ayant assez de PV pour eviter que ca soit OS land en overstuff (et bloqué le buff Abyssal minimum)

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37 minutes ago, Chibibowa said:

 

Not at all, it probably lies between 250 and 300 for the average joe. And X has a hardcap of 5 players, using X (+ W) as fury on big groups is a waste of time, but not for senti and other classes alike. So your comment is partly true, but not for every classūüėõ

yes, chibi. obviously its not every class lmao.

 

but atk speed is nowhere near 250%. even in pvp all classes hit 250 and in pve most classes get a 30-40% atk speed powerbuff. obviously every class which has a good chaincombo kinda tries to stack atk speed. as mouafr said "372" for destru? i suppose its overlord? dont know if its true or not but i would say i wasnt too far off with 400% not knowing whether he uses candy gloves or set gloves for his calculation and knowing that some people use 2 parts verdure.

 

its either mob too frekill or classes badly balanced- too much focus on packing in the dungeon etc. pick one. if you go for the mob too freekill route - then you would have to double the monsters hp at least. but i think you cant solely blame monsters hp, its a mix of everything. especially no crit rate cap and busted atk speed values

Edited by Turpin

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You keeping rambling on and on ... for no reason, and to something completely offtopic ... 

What are we supposed to reply to that?

AS doesn't mean sh*t ... only ACTUAL animation speed count, and PvE have been having the max values for years ... and not just this server, most provide it even at lower level/or very first set (to be honest since AS impact the gameplay I tend to think the earlier the better --- but still, it doesn't necessarilly mean anything as far as DPS goes ... that depends on % damage (both of X/W and skills)

And above all that, you could have skill hitting 10 time harder X/W damage, if monster HP are low enough for X to quickly dispatch them, then it doesn't matter
(and in this server, the damage gap between skill and X is quite big ... especiall when you avoid forgetting about "number of target" --- which is why for instance X-spam on Invoker (at "low gear") is utterly useless in Alru maps (since total DPS include both damage output and "how many target")
... however as gear goes up and up, at some point mobs HP is rather squishy ... and with Abyssal buff even more so)

Point is ... most gameplay being too basic is relative to not caring about "number of target" or skill efficiency (as character damage far outclass monster HP).

---------------------------
Beside, lot of people using your speech also ask for "no need to pack", but that make thing even less interesting, and worst than that, it remove the ability for low stuff to partially (ever slightly) alleviate their lack of damage (by packing more than the "well geared" ones)

Imo, while the recent rework (Isoris and couple of Alru map) are "convenient" ... so the pack are already made, they are worst when it comes to gameplay (and completely so when it comes to "teamplay" --- although, more and more people seems to not care about playing with other, and just want to carry solo everything ---- or to go "each player his pack" kinda of thing)

Plus, spam X or spam 3 skill is pretty much the same in the end ... the importance is rather "where" and "what" to use ... aka when you actually need to "think/manage" your arsenal properly, which obviously doesn't not happen when we faceroll content.

---------------------------
Regardless, the issue at hand with regard to the ranking is a lack of participation as there will basically be too few people in the same "stat bracket" --- and how freekill/fast it all is ... making very little place for player gameplay (over raw stat and spaming very basic things ... be it XW all day or not)

(not to mention the need to spend farming time to get the Abyssal buff, which basically means you need to "pay" your ranking participation, which is complete nonsense --- imagine if going in BSQ would cost 3k gold or something .... in addition to all the other "problems")

---------------------------
Ps: As you said, it is a total of a lot of things, that also include gameplay, and X/W is part of the gameplay provided the mobs don't get insta-wiped; which is the main problem. 

(e.g. with proper stats (monster HP relative to player damage) ... about all classes use both XW and skill ... and XW is monster for utility purposes (be it packing or finishing off lone mobs) --- again bosses put aside of course; which was never addressed)

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Très bonne maj qui me donnerait presque envie de reprendre le jeu... arghhhh dommage que vous l'ayez pas fait avant...  mais comme on dit mieux vaut tard que jamais!
Le stuff PvE existe enfin pour quelque chose d'autre que le flex pure, c'est cool. 
Je joue plus depuis quelque temps mais en suivant juste les r√©cents¬†patch j'ai l'impression que l'√©quipe comprend enfin quelles sont les vraies priorit√©s du jeu, c'est a dire donner de l'int√©r√™t au contenu d√©j√† existant (changement des recompenses ZA, ajout du "speedrun" pour donner un sens au stuff PvE) pour donner une motivation aux joueurs de rester et d'accomplir¬†quelque chose... plut√īt que de chercher ind√©finiment a √©quilibrer un pvp pour 4/5 personnes¬†qui seront de toutes mani√®res jamais d'accord sur la d√©finition d'un pvp √©quilibr√©.
C'est plaisant a constater, j'espère que vous continuerez dans cette direction! 

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1 hour ago, Bety said:

The PvE stuff finally exists for something other than pure flex, that's cool. 

huh, am i missing something? if you talk about the timer function, its basically the definition of pure flex in pve - like mouafr said - and on top of that totally unrealistic considering that people use abyssal and perhaps other buffs.

 

not saying its no good function, just that the function barely has any real use yet - beside flexing

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Old : pure flex for no reason (time or money used)
New : flex because you're better than those trashcan who cry because buffs exist on a mmorpg

 


Does it sound better like that mr split hairs

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now i didnt understand anything but it's okay i guess. no need to debate

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